If you're going to close a thread........

[Ron]

Les, I gotta tell ya, the clumsy way you guys are doing that is sooo obvious it would make me run in the other direction.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't pay attention to complaint threads. Go look at the way I used to turn negative threads around. I know, might be hard to find.

Instead of four paragraphs of about how hard JPC is working to be #1 in a thread about a three day restore, it might work a little better simply to express understanding, make a simple statement about we're working on it, how things like this happen, we are/have/will try to prevent it from happening.

Easy does it... one shows concern, the other shows desperation and spin.

No spin zone please!

[JPC-Les]

As in the other threads where you posted this I still agree with you. My personal goal is to be simple and straightforward but others like to be more zealous so it should balance out. I look forward to the day where you again try to turn threads in our favor again as you once did.

[Frank Broughton]

Just writing while wondering what happened to JPC-NickO ...... we need Vinnie in this thread, he will turn things around and that for sure! Where he will turn it to is anyone's guess though... haha

[thecoalman]

Sometimes you have to clean the slate, enter into a new dialogue and/or embrace other current subjects.

That is great advice based on my long and extensive experience as a forum admin/moderator/user and would be similar to some of the policies I have set down for my own moderators. That advice needs to be applied to everyone, most importantly those that are doing the locking. My concern is not about the topic being locked.

[thecoalman]

I've read your PM to me entitled "Threat" and I am shaken by this. I don't understand your intent, and I don't understand the questions you are asking.

Not picking on you Ron but another policy on my forum is absolutely no posting of or discussions about private correspondence.

[Frank Broughton]

Not picking on you Ron but another policy on my forum is absolutely no posting of or discussions about private correspondence.

I agree..... Ron is mad, like Kyle Bush yesterday, and dumb things are done when one is mad! It is out of character for him (Ron , not Kyle) too.... I have always know Ron to be of high character.

[Gwaihir]

Good for you Steve. It must be another form of preferential treatment for you since 10 people have been complaining for 5 months about the same issues, with several promises of things getting fixed right away.

That was tongue in cheek, right? Steve had actually found and included the solution to one of the styling issues and has been persistent in bringing it across. JagPC trying that isn't preferential treatment. IMHO it would have been silly if nobody at JagPC had tried to harvest that low hanging fruit at that point.

(It was a simple thing to find for anyone with the skillset though, so it does still seem a bit odd that JagPC has such trouble hiring such a person for such a long time.)

Not picking on you Ron but another policy on my forum is absolutely no posting of or discussions about private correspondence.

Disagree with that. IMHO a conversation is only private when both sides are comfortable with that. It shouldn't be taken public too lightly, but putting it under some form of NDA would create too much room for verbal abuse.


Anyway, this thread seems to have outlived its point yet kept much of its bitterness. Personally, I'm about to let it rest now.

[Ron]

If ya wanna get picky Coalman, MANY forums have a policy about not discussing moderation activity .
Wim, Yes, it was partly tongue in cheek, mostly acerbic, combining making someone a moderator after about 30 posts apparently solely because he is pro-company plus the forum issues. BTW, did they fix the low-hanging missing favicon issue? LOL

(It's not just aesthetic for me, I always have many tabs going and frequently others are also vb forums as I am researching things. I have to walk through the tabs to find the JPC forum.)

[thecoalman]

If ya wanna get picky Coalman, MANY forums have a policy about not discussing moderation activity .

Yes, my policy is no discussion about specific actions but I welcome general topics discussing the policies and rules. I suppose this one would be borderline but only because of the timing.

[thecoalman]

It shouldn't be taken public too lightly, but putting it under some form of NDA would create too much room for verbal abuse.

If you have an issue with abusive PM's you should take it to an admin/moderator. I've never seen anything good ever come of private correspondence posted to a public forum. It only leads to more trouble. I don't even allow people to post things they have received in emails for a lot of reasons. The exception I do make is if the other party agrees.

[Bell thorpe]

Ah, it is good to see those post reply icons again. Thank you (finally) JPC.

I've been travelling for a few days, and have just seen this thread. I've read it through from beginning to end. It feels surreal, as if I'm in another universe.

One of the reasons I signed up with JPC some years ago, was the nature of this forum. Naturally there is always behind the scenes moderation, deleting spammers and so on; but I did not see threads being shut down just because posters appeared not to have the right 'attitude' towards JPC. Completely off-topic posts were allowed, and they thrived. But out of those threads came pearls of wisdom, and I learned much from them. Tips and tricks that I use today. Often there was criticism of JPC, but it was just responded to, not by spin doctors, but by techs who knew their stuff. Or by JPC-Greg, who naturally knew more about the direction of JPC and what was being planned.

That's all changed. For a long time, I was a strident JPC supporter in these forums, and used to take pot shots at posters who tried to get action on their tickets (often unnecessarily in my view) in the forums. Now I see why they do so. It's sometimes the only way to get any action. Or to get the right action.

Ron had a lengthy post about Apache and PHP changes. That's a good example of what caused me a problem some times. At the time of the changes, mod_speling disappeared from my server (manticore). But I didn't know that, until I saw it in the error log. I need that module. Like it or not, there are hundreds of sites that point to wazu.jp that have wrong spelling in the urls. I can't help that. Except with mod_speling. Yet there is no procedure in place to ensure that requested function like that survives changes and upgrades by JPC tech. And I've been advised that there won't be any.

I agree with the original poster - moderators should not have their 'last say' then close the thread to stifle further discussion. It's appropriate to close a thread if it goes off the rails, or get toxic with posters insulting each other. But if a moderator is involved in a debate, it must be up to another moderator to take any action. That's a golden rule in any forums I administer.

In the real world, countries where the rulers have no moral authority, or sense of leadership, stifle dissent. In a forum such as this, shutting down dissent instead of addressing it head-on, with action, is a sign of poor management. Oh dear, am I allowed to say that? The suggestion that JPC's 'kitchen-sink-like' management skills might be questioned was seen as offensive. But have at look at this site for example. All out in the open.

As for actually hiring a spin doctorette to post in these threads, instead of spending that money on more or better tech support, what more can I say?

Normally it's considered bad form, but when Ron posted about a PM entitled 'threat', who would not react strongly? He wasn't to know it was a typo. Easy to criticise in hindsight. I've received a PM from JPC-management. Without identifying the sender, I will say that I was advised that if I posted with 'negative tones' my posts would be removed. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". That and the la-la Disneyworld spinning in the forums is astonishing. Every single post apparently must just ask a question or say how wonderful JPC is. I ask you, JPC management, can you not see that you're trying to create a fantasy world?

And if long term customers like Ron start getting bolshie, you should stand back and ask why. I don't think Ron's having a mid-life crisis ... I think JPC is.

The crunch came for me when JPC-Greg started a thread in 'Open Discussion & Chit-chat'. Perhaps fooled by the 'Open Discussion' part, I responded, strongly, to a political component of his post. Silly me, daring to expression a political opinion different from the Chief! My post was deleted. OK, I've been moderated in other forums before, and will be again. Even in my own. I can live with that, and never complain about it. But then my forum account was banned! Let's be clear, I'm a paying customer of JPC, yet I was now unable to ask questions in the forum, which I've often done to support my own paying customers. Funny way to run a hosting business, yes? I've since re-joined under a similar but slightly different name. JPC-management have of course pointed out that they're aware of this, and I'd better behave lest I'm banned again.

Well, that's all off my chest. It would not surprise me if:

• JPC-management have the last word then close this thread
• This post is disappeared
• I'm banned again

Final word - how was it, do you think, that I came across the link I posted above?

[JPC-Zachary]

Ah, it is good to see those post reply icons again. Thank you (finally) JPC.

I've been travelling for a few days, and have just seen this thread. I've read it through from beginning to end. It feels surreal, as if I'm in another universe.

One of the reasons I signed up with JPC some years ago, was the nature of this forum. Naturally there is always behind the scenes moderation, deleting spammers and so on; but I did not see threads being shut down just because posters appeared not to have the right 'attitude' towards JPC. Completely off-topic posts were allowed, and they thrived. But out of those threads came pearls of wisdom, and I learned much from them. Tips and tricks that I use today. Often there was criticism of JPC, but it was just responded to, not by spin doctors, but by techs who knew their stuff. Or by JPC-Greg, who naturally knew more about the direction of JPC and what was being planned.

That's all changed. For a long time, I was a strident JPC supporter in these forums, and used to take pot shots at posters who tried to get action on their tickets (often unnecessarily in my view) in the forums. Now I see why they do so. It's sometimes the only way to get any action. Or to get the right action.

Ron had a lengthy post about Apache and PHP changes. That's a good example of what caused me a problem some times. At the time of the changes, mod_speling disappeared from my server (manticore). But I didn't know that, until I saw it in the error log. I need that module. Like it or not, there are hundreds of sites that point to wazu.jp that have wrong spelling in the urls. I can't help that. Except with mod_speling. Yet there is no procedure in place to ensure that requested function like that survives changes and upgrades by JPC tech. And I've been advised that there won't be any.

I agree with the original poster - moderators should not have their 'last say' then close the thread to stifle further discussion. It's appropriate to close a thread if it goes off the rails, or get toxic with posters insulting each other. But if a moderator is involved in a debate, it must be up to another moderator to take any action. That's a golden rule in any forums I administer.

In the real world, countries where the rulers have no moral authority, or sense of leadership, stifle dissent. In a forum such as this, shutting down dissent instead of addressing it head-on, with action, is a sign of poor management. Oh dear, am I allowed to say that? The suggestion that JPC's 'kitchen-sink-like' management skills might be questioned was seen as offensive. But have at look at this site for example. All out in the open.

As for actually hiring a spin doctorette to post in these threads, instead of spending that money on more or better tech support, what more can I say?

Normally it's considered bad form, but when Ron posted about a PM entitled 'threat', who would not react strongly? He wasn't to know it was a typo. Easy to criticise in hindsight. I've received a PM from JPC-management. Without identifying the sender, I will say that I was advised that if I posted with 'negative tones' my posts would be removed. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". That and the la-la Disneyworld spinning in the forums is astonishing. Every single post apparently must just ask a question or say how wonderful JPC is. I ask you, JPC management, can you not see that you're trying to create a fantasy world?

And if long term customers like Ron start getting bolshie, you should stand back and ask why. I don't think Ron's having a mid-life crisis ... I think JPC is.

The crunch came for me when JPC-Greg started a thread in 'Open Discussion & Chit-chat'. Perhaps fooled by the 'Open Discussion' part, I responded, strongly, to a political component of his post. Silly me, daring to expression a political opinion different from the Chief! My post was deleted. OK, I've been moderated in other forums before, and will be again. Even in my own. I can live with that, and never complain about it. But then my forum account was banned! Let's be clear, I'm a paying customer of JPC, yet I was now unable to ask questions in the forum, which I've often done to support my own paying customers. Funny way to run a hosting business, yes? I've since re-joined under a similar but slightly different name. JPC-management have of course pointed out that they're aware of this, and I'd better behave lest I'm banned again.

Well, that's all off my chest. It would not surprise me if:

• JPC-management have the last word then close this thread
• This post is disappeared
• I'm banned again

Final word - how was it, do you think, that I came across the link I posted above?

Let's get a few things straight here. No one is being moderated for their points of view. There have been plenty of threads criticizing how we have handled things that are still open and free for discussion. Threads begin to be closed and moderated when the thread becomes off topic or offensive. In your case, a boy scout popcorn sale thread was not the proper place to discuss your political ideologies. You can be Republican, Democrat, Independant, Communist, Anarchist, etc none of our management staff could care less. If you would like to discuss those theories and believes publically that is fine, open a new thread. We will be happy to discuss them. Please do not hijack someone elses thread to do so. As they say, there is a time and a place for everything.

That same theory applies for feedback. If you have an issue feel free to open a thread and we can discuss. Please make sure to keep that thread on topic. If someone posts about our iPad giveaway don't go in there and post non iPad giveaway.

Finally one of the biggest issues I have seen lately and this goes back to the above. Someone will provide positive feedback about their experience with us and six people will bash the person with a positive view. We have 250k accounts we host. We have good feedback, bad feedback and no feedback at all. Everyone has the right to start their opinion and as long as it is acurate, we are not going to step in.

When posting just keep in mind not to hijack other folks thread, keep discussion on topic and don't attack someone else. You will be moderator free. These same principals apply to any public forum or private forum (like ours). Thank you. Have a wonderful rest of your weekend.

[JPC-Greg]

I do not want closed threads here. Spammers are one thing but its been pretty long standing tradition I don't close threads. If somethings off topic split posts and make more threads, not less, not close them.

I want to see this forum friendly up fast.

[JPC-Greg]

Bell thorpe, great post!

[Bell thorpe]

Ah, the JPC-Greg of old.

Welcome back!