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This is a discussion on DELL and the diversion in the Hosting Talk & Chit-chat forum
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  1. #16
    Ron
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    Good luck

  2. #17
    A geezer, with 1 foot in. Oldfrog's Avatar
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    Sh!t, I wouldn't send you to the store for 100 popsicles
    This is a good thing, as I don't have time to go. When I want something I tell purchasing what I want, who to buy it from, and how many. They take care of getting it to me. Oh, unless the total expenditure is over $20K, in that case my boss has to initial the purchase order.

    "Serious game machine..." What's that mean? You buy your components at Fry's instead of Radio Shack?
    How else would you distinguish between the two? On a serious note, I figure that a serious gaming machine is going to run somewhere between $3500-$4000 bucks just for components. That doesn't include anything outside the case, and needs a 'cooling allowance' in case the initial tests indicate that it is running too hot. Anything less is amateur gaming. I wish that I could quote a system that used screen splitting and two video cards to make the videos even faster, but I don't understand the technology well enough and the only folks I know of who do are Alienware. Then again, they are using a proprietary mobo and a bunch more proprietary things and are not expected to come in much under $4K if any.

    So, I muddle along in my own little ignorant world. I do want to thank you for the encouragement, though, Vin, it meant a world to me, LOL!
    Gravity, more than a good idea, it's the law!

  3. #18
    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    Originally posted by Oldfrog
    On a serious note, I figure that a serious gaming machine is going to run somewhere between $3500-$4000 bucks just for components...
    So, I muddle along in my own little ignorant world. I do want to thank you for the encouragement, though, Vin, it meant a world to me, LOL!
    First off, I need at least that much power to run my Windows OS Minesweeper. The change from clear square to red square is blindingly fast... but I always want those mines to flicker and explode faster.

    Secondly, a wise old sheepdog herder once told me to ignore Vin on occasion. I'll pass that along to you now, my son. See, Vin periodically runs out of his meds and has difficulty escaping the uplands to replenish. One of the ramifications is the expression of this homo- and popsiclophilia fetish. Another manifestation of the syndrome is an inherent attempt to divert a thread with something one considers to be inflammatory rhetoric. It will pass... or not.

  4. #19
    A geezer, with 1 foot in. Oldfrog's Avatar
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    Believe me, Spathy, I do understand and I was really just playing around, except that everything that I said about a 'serious' gaming machine stands. I can't honestly figure out how to do it for less. I mean, you start from the ground up and PS alone is going to run over $200. By the time that you have spent $500 on a video board, purchased no less that 1 gig of really fast RAM, a couple of BIG HD's in RAID0, you are talking serious bucks and haven't even looked at processors or mobo's yet. We're also talking about a system that isn't overclocked but can reach close to 80fps on Jedi Academy. Like I said, cooling and overclocking are going to up the price.

    I understand about Vin and his meds, and just hope that he understands that I am normally a very nice, accomodating fellow except that I have these periodic flashbacks and sort of forget where I am, but my doctors say that they are making real progress and that someday soon I won't hear these voices anymore.
    Gravity, more than a good idea, it's the law!

  5. #20
    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    Originally posted by Oldfrog
    ...except that I have these periodic flashbacks and sort of forget where I am, but my doctors say that they are making real progress and that someday soon I won't hear these voices anymore.
    I hear ya'. But for me, it's not so much the voices... wait, what?... go away... shhh, I'm typing... but the flashing red before my eyes. Seems to happen most often during minesweeper.

  6. #21
    Ron
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    Originally posted by Oldfrog
    [...] can reach close to 80fps on Jedi Academy. [...]
    I've often wondered.... why is much more than 30 fps needed? Can a person see much faster than that? Is it just a benchmark to say how fast a machine is... and would be able to keep up with 30fps in a more demanding program than Jedi Academy (or whatever)?

  7. #22
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Bah! Games...

    Take it from an expert. The way you win games is by cheating, not by having the fastest cruncher on the net, or having the least latency. You can't buy your way into Nirvana. Cheaters always win. That's what umpires and referees are all about, you boneheads...

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ts&btnG=Search
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

  8. #23
    A geezer, with 1 foot in. Oldfrog's Avatar
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    Remember, Vin, I'm not a gamer so I'm not concerned with rules or referees or umpires or scores. All I am concerned with is speed and keeping it cool enough to keep on being fast. If I can get some poor schmuck to say, "Holy ****! I've never seen fps like that!" and then offer me his double-wide, his wife, his two kids, a broken down Chevy pickup with extra transmission, and his dog in exchange then I win. (Not that I want any of those things, you understand, especially since I know up front that the extra transmission is missing some gears)

    Nope, the speed and satisfaction that comes with it is all that I want. Oh yeah, except for hearing him say 4 years down the road that it is still running.
    Gravity, more than a good idea, it's the law!

  9. #24
    Ron
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    Originally posted by Oldfrog
    "Holy ****!
    THAT'S THE PHRASE!

    My first job in the software business was in Cambridge, MA at a little shop where nearly everyone had a degree from MIT. What a great experience.

    We built a full size board designed to fit into a PC or even a PC-AT (80286, 6MHz (with one wait state on memory accesses)). The board had a '286, '287, up to 2MB of RAM and most of the components of a PC on it. We had some software that ran on the host machine and transferred IO from the host to the board.

    AutoCAD had a drawing that everyone knew. It was a firehose Nozzle. That Nozzle took about 2 minutes to draw on a SOTA PC-AT, and maybe 50 seconds if the system had the 80287 math co-processor unit installed

    The board did it in 8 seconds, running at either 10 or 12 MHz, in an 8088 based PC.

    Trick was a new concept-- AutoCAD had just come out with it's generic video driver API -- they were getting tired of writing drivers for every board on the market. We took the vectors and passed it to the host machine, which dutifully drew lines from the vectors and displayed them on the monitor. Loosely coupled parallel processing in an 80's PC.

    HOLY ****! That was the point to all of this; that's what EVERYBODY said when they saw the ol' schnozzle come up in 8 seconds. Everybody. Even little old ladies with their grandchildren, and their grandchildren, too.

    But, it's been a long time since I was into that level of hardware/software. So why the frame rate?
    Last edited by Ron; 06-22-2004 at 10:15 PM.

  10. #25
    Old Hillbilly Connie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Vin DSL
    Bah! Games...

    Take it from an expert.
    Hey Vin,

    Not to take away from your knowledge in a lot of areas. However this is the definition of an "Expert".

    X is an unknown quantity in math.
    Spurt is an over exaggerated drip.

    Therefore an expert is an "unknown over exaggerated drip".

  11. #26
    A geezer, with 1 foot in. Oldfrog's Avatar
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    So why the frame rate?
    Danged if I know, Ron. It seems to be what all these guys are after and does provide a benchmark of sorts. I guess that's all there is to it.

    That is impressive about the Autocad rendering, and even more impressive that you guys chose that as a test. My own quest for speed started several years ago when I built this system that I thought would blow anything else out of the water. I put MathCad on there and set up a 3 body, 3D simulation and it took forefreakingever to run. I was really disheartened until my son and one of his friends came over. His friend asked if he could run a game on it and I let him. The next thing that I knew he was wanting to buy it and take it home with him and pay me way more for it than I had put in.

    I can probably keep on making money forever on the low-end game machines but would love to do one sort of like I described but adding dual processors into the mix. I am trying to do 3D shadowing of a 4D object and have complete rotational control in a small window. It works, it just works really slowly.

    Oh well! I guess that is what life is all about. It's not the grail that is important, it's the quest.
    Gravity, more than a good idea, it's the law!

  12. #27
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    Originally posted by Vin DSL
    The way you win games is by cheating...you boneheads.
    What fun is that?

    And I prefer Intel chips over AMD even though AMD still produces some good stuff and they cost about the same; consequently, their TCO is about the same except for maybe heat dissipation issues which could reduce product longevity.

  13. #28
    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    Originally posted by Ron
    So why the frame rate?
    Frame rate on a system is getting to be a tricky benchmark to make worthy. So much of the visual processing that is done is now being shifted to the video card and is not nearly as CPU dependent. That trend will continue... I mean video cards are now more expensive than the mainboard much of the time. As such video frame rate is becoming a worse indicator of overall system performance since so much is offloaded to vcard ram and gpu. Motherboard bus will become less and less important as video cards continue to evolve.

    I've always liked dual systems for their backup more than their performance. So few programs are written to take advantage of the second processor and cpu threading that unless you're working in CAD, as you folks have mentioned, then much of the CPU is wasted. I like them nonetheless.
    Last edited by Spathiphyllum; 06-22-2004 at 10:54 PM.

  14. #29
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    Originally posted by Oldfrog
    I figure that a serious gaming machine is going to run somewhere between $3500-$4000 bucks just for components.
    Holy****! Where you shopping? I put mine together for <$1K retail.

    Even with an upgrade to the latest video card I would be <$1300.

    In single player mode, at 1024 X 768, games run sooo fast the eyes can't keep up. In online multiplayer mode, I seldom experiance lag and usually have pings of <50.

    Case with 450w psu = $50 (never failed me in two years)
    Gigabyte mobo 8X agp with AMD XP 2500+ $200
    80 gig Seagate 7200 8mb cache= $50
    1 gig 400 RAM = $200
    CDRW = $50
    OS =$200 (yeah right- what am I supposed to do with my old software? If I HAD to buy software add the $200)
    floppy = $15
    ATI 8500 DV (for vid capture) $200

    A new system with ATI's latest Graphics Card would be about $1300 (including OS)

    Yes, I would be at a disadvantage on a LAN with power users, but I am living in the real world with cable lol.


    What program/projector are you using for your 3D project?

  15. #30
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    Originally posted by Spathiphyllum
    LOL. I can imagine. I'd be curious to know, looking back, if you can recall his most grievous assertion. I can just hear the BS flying.
    On a 466 Celeron with 56k Modem -- "and you can download movies over the internet"

    *&#$(*&$%#@! 3kps on an mp3.

    ROFLMAO now!

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