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We've been getting quite a few power surges and brief outages recently and I was wondering what everyone was using as their favorite battery back-up/line ...

  1. #1
    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    Question Power Back-Up and Software

    We've been getting quite a few power surges and brief outages recently and I was wondering what everyone was using as their favorite battery back-up/line conditioner product and associated back-up software utility?

    I know APC and Tripp Lite are big names (I happen to be using an off brand battery with no software) in the industry but was looking for proven alternatives that are geared towards linux boxes. The requirement that I'm really interested in is the self-adjusting linux software.

    Any ideas or personal recommendations?

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    At work, I run an APC unit that provides something like 15 minutes of full runtime after complete powerloss. I've had this happen, and it's proven itself up to about 10 minutes running two Dell (Windows) boxes, two LCDs, and one laptop. Certainly enough time if you are sitting there and the lights go out.

    As for the soft shutdown, only one main box is hooked up via serial cable. I'm not too worried about the laptop because of it's internal battery, and the other box is pretty much just a file whore. The software has some set-n-forget function, that I honestly can't remember now. Seems to work pretty well, and it records a small log file on the outages.

    Our critical machines all have similar systems, each with it's own APC unit. Through a number of outages, they've all worked as advertised except one... apparently, there is nothing in them that lets you know via software if the battery is no longer holding a charge, and our units are usually out of site. This might have changed, by now.

    No experience with Linux boxes specifically... don't have time to set one up at work, and don't have the inclination at home.

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    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Interesting topic, if I do say so...

    At the risk of repeating myself, I've been doing this a long time, so, naturally, I have quite a collection of UPS's - some that I purchased, so that were given to me. Why would someone give me UPS's? Because the [email protected]#$%& batteries died.

    Personally, my favorite UPS is made by Minuteman.I run sinewave UPS's on computers I care about. Otherwise, I buy POS APC's, the McDonald's of the UPS world.

    Back to the batteries, this is just as important as the UPS itself. UPS's last forever. Batteries last a year or two. My favorite battery replacements are made by Yaesu. Some of my UPS's take one, some take two.

    I already know who makes the best UPS's. What I want to know is the cheapest place to buy batteries...
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    Originally posted by Vin DSL
    Back to the batteries, this is just as important as the UPS itself. UPS's last forever. Batteries last a year or two.
    I wouldn't say that is always the case. I have had the relays that kick the UPS over to battery go bad then they don't work. Because of this if the battery dies I go ahead and buy a complete new UPS. I use APC at work and they have a "Trade UPS" program where you can trade your old UPS in toward another new one. Knocks about half the price off the new one.

    Randy

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    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by randyriegel
    I use APC at work and they have a "Trade UPS" program where you can trade your old UPS in toward another new one. Knocks about half the price off the new one.

    Randy
    Yeah, Para Systems does the same thing. It's a sucker's game. They probably all do it...

    I dunno... I have several APC's and I don't really care for them. Alternately, I have a Minuteman A300 that they'll have to pry out of my cold, dead hands. Unfortunately, they don't make that model any more.

    I was just looking around the Minuteman site. The S1000 looks pretty nice. True sinewave output. Comes with *NUX software too! I think that would serve most ppl nicely!Without too much trouble, I found it on the web for "about half the price", and it doesn't even require a trade-in...
    Last edited by Vin DSL; 06-27-2004 at 12:09 AM.
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    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    Thanks for the input folks. The reliability factors (for what they're worth) and universal compatability of the Minuteman and APC lines look promising. Fortunately I don't need something that will run hours on end without intervention... just looking for something that can handle a firewall and backup server so that I don't have to worry about shocking the harddrives from abrupt termination and catastrophic failure.

    Minuteman seems really geared for *nix, but APC seems to be addressing the newcomer now too. APC used to only handle windows boxes which seems antithetical to the concept of self-managed network hardware.

    The trade-up/replacement policies seem useful but I guess I'd rather have hardware designed for a longer term in mind. Give me a well-designed shell that is over-engineered, simple and reliable software power manager, and easily interchangeable batteries that don't switch design every 2 years (i.e. no planned obsolesence) and I'll be a happy camper. I just want to be able to plug in a replacement battery as needed.

    Looks like I've got extra homework to do. My gut originally guided me to APC but it looks like another horse is in the race.

  7. #7
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Woo Hoo!

    I need batteries for ol' reliable, and did I find THE place!!!

    http://www.ragebattery.com/index.html

    My Minuteman 300 takes two 12-volt (6.5 ah) batteries, e.g. 24 volts, 13 ah. Check out these prices...

    Yuasa (Yeah, I know - rip off of USA) 7.0 ah:
    http://www.ragebattery.com/Merchant2...ry_Code=np7-12

    Power-Sonic (yeah, I know - rip off of Panasonic) 7.0 ah:
    http://www.ragebattery.com/Merchant2...ry_Code=np7-12

    Power-Sonic Hot Rod Battery 8.0 ah:
    http://www.ragebattery.com/Merchant2...gory_Code=pshr

    Such a deal!
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

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    Ron
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    Originally posted by Vin DSL

    My Minuteman 300 takes two 12-volt (6.5 ah) batteries, e.g. 24 volts, 13 ah. Check out these prices...
    I don't THINK so.

    Either 12V 13 AH or 24V 6.5AH deopending if you wire in parallel or in series, respectively.

    one battery = 12V*6.5 AH = 78 watt hours
    two batteries in parallel = 12V * 13 = 156 watt hours
    two batteries in series = 24V * 6.5 = 156 watt hours
    Last edited by Ron; 07-05-2004 at 12:08 AM.

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    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ron
    I don't THINK so...
    http://www.minutemanups.com/ubb/Foru...ML/000005.html
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Yes, okay, I see what your saying. Two hot rods equal 192 watt hours.

    I need the F2 lugs anyway, so that's the way I'll go...

    Heh! Less than 30 bones delivered!
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

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    Ron
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    Motorhome math:

    Typical letter to tech column in generic motorhome mag:

    "I have my 2 12V chassis batteries, and my 4 12V coach batteries. I want to use the deep cycle Golf Cart batteries, because they are "more powerful". Can I do this?

    Answer should be "NO. Take it to a motohome guy to do it."

    Typical answer is:

    "Yes. Golf Cart batteries typically have higher Amp-Hour ratings, but are 6 Volts. You must wire the 4 batteries into two 12V pairs, then wire the two pairs in parallel."

    To which: " See you in the ER" should be appended.

  12. #12
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    I talked to an electrician today. He said when you run batteries in series, it doubles the voltage, but the current stays the same. When you run them parallel, it doubles the current, but the voltage stays the same. Makes sense...
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    Ron
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    You didn't believe me? Harumph

    And to think.... upstaged by an electrician..... must be a Teamster thing.

    Are you sure he didn't say "Wire them in seriparales and we'll all be on OT for a week?"

  14. #14
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ron
    And to think.... upstaged by an electrician..... must be a Teamster thing...
    IBEW...
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    Originally posted by Vin DSL
    I need the F2 lugs anyway, so that's the way I'll go...
    I'm afraid you may need something ALOT bigger:

    Substation fire poses blackout threat in Phoenix

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