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Hello, I am finally on the right track, I was able to get my account up and running thanks to Masood and am looking forward ...

  1. #1
    Loyal Client ocelotspot.com's Avatar
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    Easy Questions... I hope !

    Hello, I am finally on the right track, I was able to get my account up and running thanks to Masood and am looking forward to experimenting with some different site designs. I haven't made a website in such a long time, I remember memorizing html during literature class in highschool, lol! For now I am using Frontpage, but am concerned it might be just a little limiting, and was wondering what you guys would recomend I aim to learn. I'm sure that there is a lot more I could learn with frontpage, but at the same time it might be better to focus on a more practical application.

    On a side note, I was wondering if I could set up some accounts under my bulk reseller without using a domain name, but rather just give them a folder or possibly a 'sub domain' of my account, not sure if that is the right term, but for example if I wanted to give my brother chris a small web site, could I set it up for him as chris.ocelotspot.com or ocelotspot.com/chris or can I only setup accounts with a new domain name? with domain names cheap it isn't a tremendoes issue, but It would be nice to be able to setup several small accounts without domain names.

    If I can think of any other relatively easy questions I'll throw them in here, I dont want to burden the ticket system right now with my minor questions! and I know you guys know your stuff!

    Mark
    www.OcelotSpot.com
    www.ISPmark.com
    www.Hospitablehost.com

  2. #2
    Community Leader jason's Avatar
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    FrontPage is OK for web development, but being a Microsoft product, the code it creates is designed to work really well in IE/Windows. FronPage sites sometimes don't look or function correctly in other browsers (or even IE/Mac).

    Most of the professional web developers I know usually use Dreamweaver if they use anything at all. Dreamweaver has a pretty good WYSIWYG interface and a lot of nice extras to make web developement easier. Dreamweaver is a bit pricy and it does have a learning curve to it, though. Personally I use Dreamweaver to build my prototyp template and then I tweak it and add content by working with the raw HTML.

    You may also want to check out some of the various CMS solutions that abound. With a CMS (content management system) you basically create a template for your site and then use some web-based management tools to create the actual content. The CMS tools make it really easy to add content without being a designer or HTML guru and generally all you need to edit your site is a web browser--no special software. If you want to play around with some CMS packages to see what works for you, check out http://www.opensourcecms.com/. This site lets you play around with some of the more popular packages without having to install them on your site. Also the Fantastico tools in your CPanel let you install and maintain some of the various packages with very little effort.

    I don't know about setting up full accounts without domain names since I've never used the bulk reseller interface (although I'd imagine that you can do it and use http://servername.nocdirect.com/~username as the URL), but you can set up subdomains inside of any account you create through CPanel. You cna then assign the subdomain its own ftp account and give that to your brother. He could then access his site with brother.yourdomain.com or yourdomain.com/brother.

    Good luck with your sites.

    --Jason
    Jason Pitoniak
    Interbrite Communications
    www.interbrite.com www.kodiakskorner.com

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    Loyal Client ocelotspot.com's Avatar
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    Thanks Jason, wow lots of good stuff to look over, I'm glad its friday, otherwise I might have to play sick and stay home tomorow!

    Mark

    PS - I noticed my main account is different from the other 2 accounts I created, in that it has a bunch of folders, one of which is 'public_mtml'. when I tried to publish an index file from frontpage to my site, it did work, and it is on there, but when I type in www.ocelotspot.com it isn't there, I made a test word file in the 'public_html' folder and it is visible when I type my address. how can I publish directly to this folder? or should I just not use the main account as a side and creat an additional sub account for this site to make it easy? THANKS ! ! !

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    Old Hillbilly Connie's Avatar
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    FP is OK, but you need to learn some HTML so you can modify the code at times. If you validate the code using W3C Validator you will be fine. I agree Dreamweaver probably produces better code but it is expensive and has a steep learning curve. I have both and don't use either anymore. I have developed templets and work from those using a good text editor.

    If I need the code for something different I use FP. Just my 2 cents worth.

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    Having had some experience with FrontPage, my personal opinion of it would be quite a bit lower than OK.

    If you are looking for a WYSISWYG program, you might want to take a look at Nvu. It's an open source program based on the old Netscape Composer. The code it creates is supposed to be standards compliant and there is also a HTML code edit mode.

    http://www.nvu.com/

  6. #6
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanB
    Having had some experience with FrontPage, my personal opinion of it would be quite a bit lower than OK...
    I don't mean to pick on your post, but I'm in a hurry...

    FrontPage works fine, if you know what you're doing, i.e. you've taken some college courses in it, and so forth. I've seen some fantastic, jaw-dropping web sites built with FrontPage... but that's not the point.

    To repeat myself, I've been doing this a long time and, for a couple of years (three actually), I ran my web site on IIS servers, just for the hell of it -- as a learning experience, if you will.

    IIS has its pros & cons, just like all OSs, which I won't go into here, but the thing is... after you've used it for a few months, you start to realize that IIS is like any and all MS products. That is, it's designed to be used, to its maximum efficiency and effectiveness, with other MS products. It's a whole system of products, you know?

    For instance, MS uses their own sql databases. Sure, you can run MySQL on IIS, but it's a bastardization, just like using FrontPage to design and maintain web sites on Linux servers.

    Without turning this into a diatribe, FrontPage works GREAT if you're running your web site on IIS servers. They are designed to work hand-in-hand. FrontPage is the only way to fly if you're running IIS...

    I never could figure out why 'they' include FrontPage extensions on Linux servers, other than some ppl broke their teeth on it and want to continue using it. To me, its a classic mismatch, just like using Linux tools on a IIS server.

    In other words, unless you already know and love FrontPage and are accustomed to using it on IIS servers, I wouldn't bother using it in a Linux environment... but, that's just me...
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

  7. #7
    Old Hillbilly Connie's Avatar
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    I never could figure out why 'they' include FrontPage extensions on Linux servers, other than some ppl broke their teeth on it and want to continue using it. To me, its a classic mismatch, just like using Linux tools on a IIS server.
    You can use FP on Linux without the extensions. Been there and done that. Just don't use FP to upload files.

    One thing I have learned over the years. What you see with a WYSIWYG program does not always look that way on the web. FP is as good as any if you don't rely on it.

    Regardless of what editor your using you have to know some basic HTML. Every new page should be Validated at W3C. If the page validates it should render the same in all browsers.
    Last edited by Connie; 09-23-2005 at 05:58 PM.

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    Loyal Client ocelotspot.com's Avatar
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    Arrow

    yes, frontpage certainly has its quirks, I already know the basics of it and figured I would give it a try, but I think I will experiment with some others. There are many things I dislike about frontpage as it is, and as I become more experienced I'm sure I will discover many more and eventually move away from using it all together, but for now if I can use it for a little while to get by, so be it. That whole CMS thing sounds intriguing, I might have to experiment with one of those, anyone have a favorite for me to play with

    Mark
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  9. #9
    || $name ne 'R.Stiltskin'
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    http://www.chami.com/html-kit/

    Expandable, versatile, a blend of tools with straight editing capabilities and shortcut insertions. Can be tweaked a million ways from Sunday to suit your preferences. Not as flashy as Dreamweaver but wholly customizable to almost anything. It's just a great editor for any language.

    It comes in a free version or you can pay for a license. A bargain at any price though it doesn't hold your hand quite like MS Frontpage. As Vin said, using it on Linux is an irregular fit. If you like Apache, I can't say that I'd advise intermingling MS tools. Just my preference based on my cutting of teeth a few years ago with Frontpage. It just feels limiting if such a sentiment can be applied to tech.

  10. #10
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clssam
    You can use FP on Linux without the extensions... Just don't use FP to upload files...

    Regardless of what editor your using you have to know some basic HTML...
    A couple of comments... not arguments...

    To me, one of the nicest features of FP is its file managment capabilities. Extensions are essential to this. Heh! Maybe I answered my own question...

    And, believe it or not, one of the 'nicest' web sites I ever saw was done by a 13 year-old using MS Word. No kidding! He didn't know jack about HTML, just saved as 'Web Pages'...
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin DSL
    I don't mean to pick on your post, but I'm in a hurry...

    FrontPage works fine, if you know what you're doing, i.e. you've taken some college courses in it, and so forth.
    I'm used to working with the markup. My problem with Frontpage stems from the fact that I ended up having to update a site that was originally built (and edited multiple times) with FrontPage. Prior to that I didn't have much experience with FP. Trying to go in and edit that code was the biggest hassle. An even bigger hassle was trying to edit the documents in WYSIWYG mode. It would insert all kinds of tags, which would totally mess up the layout. Because of that experience, I'm a little biased, I admit.

    I agree with what Connie said about at least learning some basic HTML. I've used Dreamweaver (in WYSIWYG mode) and I don't find it mangles the code like FP does, but it's still easier for me to work directly with the code.

    My favorite program for that is TSW Webcoder (http://www.tsware.net/). It's very similar to the old Allair Homesite. It color codes the markup, has markup autocomplete features, excellent search and replace functions (even through whole folders), is very customizable and as long as you register the program, it's free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin DSL
    And, believe it or not, one of the 'nicest' web sites I ever saw was done by a 13 year-old using MS Word. No kidding! He didn't know jack about HTML, just saved as 'Web Pages'...
    I'm sure it looked great in Internet Explorer, but what does it look like in Firefox, Opera or Safari?

  13. #13
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanB
    My favorite program for that is TSW Webcoder (http://www.tsware.net/). It's very similar to the old Allair Homesite...
    Funny you should mention that...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    Old Hillbilly Connie's Avatar
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    I have tried to download it twice today. Both downloads were corrupted. Probably won't try again. The program did look interesting. Wish I could have got a good download. I guess I will just stick with EditPlus.

  15. #15
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clssam
    I have tried to download it twice today. Both downloads were corrupted. Probably won't try again. The program did look interesting. Wish I could have got a good download. I guess I will just stick with EditPlus.
    Sheesh... I can't believe ppl don't offer FTP downloads of their software! What a way to do business...
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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