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This is a discussion on Bounced E-Mails in the Hosting Talk & Chit-chat forum
Hey guys, I submitted this as a support ticket, but I'm curious if anyone here has ever seen anything like this before. Over the last ...

  1. #1
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    Bounced E-Mails

    Hey guys,

    I submitted this as a support ticket, but I'm curious if anyone here has ever seen anything like this before.

    Over the last week weve been getting reports of our e-mail sporadically bouncing, or being really delayed. I get asked if I received an e-mail sent a few hours prior, sometimes I get it really delayed, sometimes not. Oddly enough, some mail gets through, others does not. We're not using any built-in spam filters or spamassassin.

    Today finally a friend sent me a message of the error he received when sending me an e-mail (for an e-mail we never did).

    ---BEGIN MESSAGE---

    From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <[email protected]>
    Date: October 29, 2006 3:06:51 PM EST (CA)
    To: ***@mac.com
    Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours


    **************************************** ******
    ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY **
    ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE **
    **************************************** ******


    The original message was received at Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:34:48 -0800 (PST)
    from smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]


    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
    ... while talking to gamingexcellence.com.:
    DATA
    <<< 451 Could not complete sender verify callout
    <***@gamingexcellence.com>... Deferred: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout
    <<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
    Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
    Will keep trying until message is 4 days old
    Reporting-MTA: dns; smtpout.mac.com
    Arrival-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:34:48 -0800 (PST)


    Final-Recipient: RFC822; ***@gamingexcellence.com
    Action: delayed
    Status: 4.3.0
    Remote-MTA: DNS; gamingexcellence.com
    Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 451 Could not complete sender verify callout
    Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:06:51 -0800 (PST)

    ---END MESSAGE---

    I noticed last Friday our e-mail count was unusually low, I'm betting this has something to do with it.

    E-mail is absolutely essential to our business, and bounced e-mail looks not only very unprofessional but it can have us automatically removed from some very important and difficult to get on contact lists. I'm thinking this is a problem on JPC's servers (and we just moved servers about a month ago to Posiedon, and I don't really want to go through that trouble again).

    Any ideas?

    -S

  2. #2
    Ron
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    Yeah, to me it looks like sender verify is still on on your server, and the DNS delay issue is causing a timeout.

    As a workaround until the DNS issue can be fixed, ask them to turn off sender verification on your server.

    Open a ticket and if they can't help you, ask them to forward it to Masood for Monday.

  3. #3
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    Done and done, thanks for the speedy reply. I hope this works out.

    -S

  4. #4
    Ron
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    I'd have'em turn off sender verify anyway, it's a bogus approach to the spam problem, and depends on people using legit and verifiable email addresses as the return addy on emails, something not all lists do...

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    I got the reply that they've turned it off on the server, I hope it fixes the problem. No mention of a DNS problem from the support rep though.

    -S

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    Unfortunately, we're still getting them (and they seem to be really bad when sending from the @mac.com domain...). Here is a forward from one of the people reporting the problem.

    --

    From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <[email protected]>
    > Date: October 30, 2006 11:16:55 PM EST (CA)
    > To: ***@mac.com
    > Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours
    >
    > **************************************** ******
    > ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY **
    > ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE **
    > **************************************** ******
    >
    > The original message was received at Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:57:34
    > -0800 (PST)
    > from smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]
    >
    > ----- Transcript of session follows -----
    > ... while talking to gamingexcellence.com.:
    >>>> DATA
    > <<< 451 Could not complete sender verify callout
    > <***@gamingexcellence.com>... Deferred: 451 Could not complete
    > sender verify callout
    > <<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
    > Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
    > Will keep trying until message is 4 days old
    > Reporting-MTA: dns; smtpout.mac.com
    > Arrival-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:57:34 -0800 (PST)
    >
    > Final-Recipient: RFC822; ***@gamingexcellence.com
    > Action: delayed
    > Status: 4.3.0
    > Remote-MTA: DNS; gamingexcellence.com
    > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 451 Could not complete sender verify callout
    > Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:16:55 -0800 (PST)
    >

  7. #7
    Ron
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    Ask them to forward the ticket to Masood.

  8. #8
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    I've noticed an increase in these kinds of messages since JagPC switched to Courier.

    Evidently, Courier generates a lot more notices than the old daemon -- most of which require no action -- like delayed deliveries, and so forth...
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    Ron
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    I think these are messages from the remote system, Vin; i.e. non-Jag system is reporting that they are trying to send something to a Jag domain, but the Jag domain is not accepting the email because of a sender verification timeout.

    I am having a problem last few days where emails are not being sent. I sent an email to my wifes account (same domain!) and it never arrived, and many of my community members are saying they aren't getting emails from the system.

    Hey, just a thought -- I wonder if it went to my old server? lol I'm gonna go check.

  10. #10
    Ron
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    Nope.

  11. #11
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I think these are messages from the remote system, Vin...
    Yeah, I know! Okay, let's leave it at this...

    I've been getting more notices since they switched to Courier!
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

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    Ron
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    But.... but ... but.... are you replying to the OPs issue, or just making a comment....?

    If it's the former...unless you're sending emails to yourself, the notices

    aaaahhhh never mind.. it's too convoluted to type as I'm preparing for hobgoblins.

  13. #13
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    sigh...
    Quote Originally Posted by DFAlpha View Post
    Hey guys,
    I submitted this as a support ticket, but I'm curious if anyone here has ever seen anything like this before.

    Over the last week weve been getting reports of our e-mail sporadically bouncing, or being really delayed.

    Any ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vin DSL View Post
    I've noticed an increase in these kinds of messages since JagPC switched to Courier.

    Evidently, Courier generates a lot more notices than the old daemon -- most of which require no action -- like delayed deliveries, and so forth...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    But.... but ... but.... are you replying to the OPs issue, or just making a comment....?
    You need to practice your reading comprehension, Ronny!
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

  14. #14
    Yeah, I know a LOT! Vin DSL's Avatar
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    BTW, yes, many of these warnings and notices are being generated by Courier...

    For instance, when you send a mail, and the server is down, it will keep throwing delay notices for 2-3 days afterwards!
    DISCLAIMER Any resemblance between the views expressed above and those of the owners and operators of this system is purely coincidental. Any resemblance between these views and my own are non-deterministic. The existence of Vin DSL is questionable. The existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is problematic. The existence of the reader is left as an exercise in the second-order coefficient.

    No Guts, No Story! VinDSL 2010

  15. #15
    Ron
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    When he said he is getting reports of his emails bouncing or being delayed, from the context of:
    "Over the last week weve been getting reports of our e-mail sporadically bouncing, or being really delayed. I get asked if I received an e-mail sent a few hours prior, sometimes I get it really delayed, sometimes not"
    he is talking about emails headed inbound to him.

    The examples he has posted are from people sending emails to him.

    He goes on to say "they seem to be really bad when sending from the @mac.com domain"

    Unless he owns mac.com (he doesn't) he is also saying that the problem he is describing is for inbound emails.

    My reading comprehension is fine, I think. At least in this case.

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